From: Steve Swope
Subject: Hot Glue and Foam (not a hot idea)

but very quickly get too dull to work well). But now that I have foam, I
need a hot glue gun. Being new to the whole hot glue concept, I was
wondering if there's any special glue that works best for foam, or is it
all pretty much the same? And do I need to brutally slobber the glue
over every square inch, or would a more conservative approach work just
as well? I know, I could figure it out by experimenting, but what the
heck. I'm on the mailing list, I might as well use it, eh?

My advice is not to use hot glue at all. Look for something called Super Weatherstrip Adhesive (both 3M and Permatex make varieties; the 3M stuff is a little more expensive, but also a little better; either will do in a pinch). It is relatively easy to work with, and remains flexible when set.

IMPORTANT WORD OF CAUTION!!!! This stuff is toxic. You MUST have adequate ventilation, and I cannot stress stongly enough the importance of acquiring, using, and *MAINTAINING* an OSHA-approved respirator. Your liver will thank you.

By maintaining as mentioned above, the filter cartridges must be changed periodically, or the filter loses effectiveness.

From: Ysengrin
Subject: Hot Glue

On 21-JAN-1995 12:05:54.2 penhgwyn said to YSENGRIN

now that I have foam, I need a hot glue gun. Being new to the whole
hot glue concept, I was wondering if there's any special glue that
works best for foam, or is it all pretty much the same? And do I need
to brutally slobber the glue over every square inch, or would a more
conservative approach work just as well?

Hot glue really doesn't work that well on foam - especially the harder foams. We use the amber 'ultra strength' hot glue, and I usually have to apply one layer on the foam and rub it in with a hot glue pad to make a bondable surface, or apply the glue twice. If you have the time to allow it to set (and don't need much flexibility) we've found that Weldwood works very well. That goes for fur-to-foam, too, but it's usually too stiff for costumes.

– Brian “picking bits of foam off everything in the house” Hagen

{gryn} just wait until you start furring …

Sometime during the construction of a fursuit, one will have to use adhesives (glues) to bond two items together. Selection of the right kind of adhesive for the job is essential for the proper functioning of the fursuit. For example, most people perspire in a fursuit on even a moderately warm day, so using a water soluble glue would not be advisable. Before one can choose and safely use the proper adhesive, one must know what kinds of glues there are, what properties they have and what materials they will join. Most adhesives now used are synthetic substances dissolved in some kind of solvent which gives off potentially hazardous fumes when being applied and during curing, so one must know how to use them safely.

Adhesives are natural and synthetic substances used for joining or bonding other materials together by surface attachment. The first primitive adhesives were natural gums and waxes as rosin, rubber, and beeswax. The Egyptians used animal and casein glues to make furniture and attaching ornamental veneers to wood surfaces. Modern adhesives range from the glue on postage stamps to the epoxy resins used to make aircraft and bridges.

The chemical and physical processes of adhesion are not well understood and research relies on experiments rather than theory. The strength of a joint bonded by an adhesive depends on five factors with the bond being only as strong as the weakest part. These are the strength or cohesion of the material to be joined, the strength of the adhesive bond to the material, the strength of the adhesive itself, the strength of the adhesive bond to the other material and the strength of the other material.

With most types of adhesives, the strength of the adhesive bond is stronger than the adhesive itself and, thus, the adhesive film should be as thin as possible. The joining surfaces of the materials must fit together exactly and have large enough area of the right shape so the joint is not over stressed. Adhesive joints resist shear or sideways forces and tension well, but to don't resist peeling forces.

It is important to choose the right adhesive for a job. Joints between flexible materials must be made with a flexible adhesive and must be given enough time to set up or bond. Adhesives used around moisture must not be water soluble.

Adhesives may be hot-melt, which come in solid forms, are melted by heating, and harden and bond on cooling. They may be water soluble, which would be a drawback for use in costumes that are exposed to perspiration and have to be washed. The adhesive may be dissolved in an organic solvent, which evaporates and allows the adhesive to set quickly and is normally water resistant. However, the fumes released may be hazardous and may require safety precautions to be taken.

There are two basic classes of adhesives, natural and synthetic resin.

Natural adhesives may come from animal, vegetable or mineral sources.

The term glue applies to protein derivatives made from animal or vegetable protein. White and yellow woodworking glues are made by the traditional method of boiling down bones.

Glues are usually sold in the form of granules or flakes which are heated and dissolved in water before being used. They are applied hot and harden both by cooling and the absorption or evaporation of water. Animal and fish glues are also made in a liquid form that is used cold.

The principal uses of glue are in woodworking and the manufacture of coated abrasives such as sandpaper. All of the animal and vegetable glues may be attacked by fungus under conditions of high temperature and humidity.

Casein glue is made from milk protein and is sold as a powder that is mixed with water just before being used. Its adhesion to porous materials is good and its moisture resistance is somewhat superior to animal glue.

Vegetable glues are made from starches or dextrins and are low in cost but possess limited strength and moisture resistance. Gum Arabic is a water soluble vegetable adhesive often used on stamps and gummed paper envelopes.

Natural gums and resins usually possess low melting points and may be used hot or mixed with solvents. They usually have fair adhesion and excellent moisture resistance, but soften and loose strength at elevated temperatures.

Natural rubber compounds are used to bond linoleum or tiles to floors and acoustical material to ceilings. The rubber cements used for bonding paper, rubber, or leather are often made of natural rubber in a solvent but synthetic rubber is also used. Marine glues are often natural resins dissolved in a solvent that evaporates during hardening. Sealing wax is an example of a hot melt adhesive made of natural resins.

Water glass or sodium silicate is the only inorganic adhesive in general use and is the only one capable of withstanding temperatures in excess of about 500 degrees Fahrenheit. It has a tendency to deteriorate and crumble on aging especially on nonporous materials.

It is low in cost and used widely in the manufacture of corrugated boxes and for attaching labels to glass containers. Mixed with inorganic fillers it forms high temperature cements used for lamp bases and heating elements.

Glue-All

Carpenters Interior Wood Glue

Professional Carpenters Wood Glue

Probond

Household Goop

Plumbers Goop

Marine Goop

Seal-All

Standard (4-6 minute) epoxy

Extra Setting Time (up to 30 minutes) epoxy

Contact Cement

Black Plastic Rubber

VLP

Vyna Bond

J-B Weld

Super Strength Adhesive

Super 77

Contact 80

General Purpose Spray Adhesive 201

Aetobatus has knowledge of the proper adhesives to be used when constructing heads. To bond fur to fiberglass, he recommends 3M Blue72 or FormFast74. Blue72 is a bit stronger, but one has to be very careful as the blue color of the adhesive will bleed through the fur, so use it sparingly. To bond fur to foam, he recommends FoamFast74.

Aetobatus has attached whiskers onto fiberglass by embedding the ends (of fishing lines?) in a tiny bit of hot glue and letting it set.

Aetobatus has used a wetsuit cement, called Seal Cement, but available under many different brand names. You brush it on both pieces of material, let dry till tacky, then affix them together. Aetobatus notes that it has nasty fumes, is messy to work with, and does not work will all materials, for example, it does not bond well to vinyl. However, it forms a strong bond with anything it does bond.

Aetobatus says that epoxy doesn't really adhere to most things all that well but rather forms a nice structural base for them. He is familiar with two types of epoxies, the nice marine grade slow setting epoxy and “the cheapo 5-minute kinds in the two tubes.” He cautions that the 5-minute epoxies produce worse fumes than the marine industrial epoxies, probably because the outgassing is more gradual on the marine epoxy.

Aetobatus says that epoxies depend on surface roughness to bond and will not bond well to a smooth surface; anything you want to epoxy should be cleaned and free from dirt, grease, etc. and rough, a smooth surface should be sanded until it is rough. He says, “If I let an epoxy layer fully set up (24-48 hours), then put another layer on top of it without sanding, I can nearly peel it off by hand, and if I sand that layer on top, I will certainly pull off chunks of adhesive.”

Aetobatus says that he has used many silicone based marine adhesives but not for costume work.

Aetobatus has used a couple of synthetic rubber adhesives: Polycon and Flexane which are used to form waterproof electrical connections. He says Polycon is flammable and both the fumes and the substance itself is toxic so one must take great precautions when using it including having proper ventilation and wearing rubber gloves. He is not sure of Flexane's safety as he has used them outside in a strong wind.

“Polycon is a GREAT material if you can deal with it,” Aetobatus says. It is a 2-part substance with a 5 minute pot life that sets up to become a flexible rubber. He does not think there would be a problem with creep. Polycon remains liquid for 2-3 minutes when its two components are mixed, but you must mix it thoroughly before you apply it or it will not set properly, becoming a jelly-like substance that is difficult to clean. It sets in about 10 minutes and can be used to make casts. It is also expensive, too.

Aetobatus says Flexane has similar properties to Polycon, but is more viscous when mixed and has a much longer pot life, taking hours to fully set. The 3M stuff sets up in about 30 minutes, but results in a hard rigid cast.

Aetobatus has worked with cyanoacrylics and solvent based acrylic adhesives and has not found any use for them in costuming.